97. Diversifying Queer Horror Cinema (with Jose Nateras)

In previous episodes, we discussed the history of gay representation in TV and film and roadblocks LGBTQ+ actors encounter in Hollywood, with gay characters continuing to be portrayed by straight actors. While representation is important, authentic LGBTQ+ portrayals in the media fosters inclusivity and visibility, helping to break down stereotypes and promote understanding among audiences.

In this episode, actor, writer, and screenwriter Jose Nateras joins us to discuss his new LGBTQ+ horror movie, Departing Seniors, and how he leveraged his own personal experiences and identity to create an authentic film.

Relevant Episodes:

• Listen to Episode 07. The History of Gay Representation in TV & Film
• Listen to Episode 28. Gay Horror

Additional Resources:

• Watch Departing Seniors
• Learn More About Jose Nateras
• Follow Jose Nateras on Instagram
• Follow Jose Nateras on Twitter
• Buy Testament by Jose Nateras

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Transcript

Guest Opener (0:00)

Jose Nateras

Name like an actor with name recognition, who can believably play a high schooler, and is a queer Latino. Who? Like, who? Like I can't think of anybody like that, right? And part of that is to create the opportunities so that those individuals can arise like so that those individuals can present themselves.

Episode Introduction (0:40)

Rob Loveless

Hello, my LGBTQuties, and welcome back to another episode of A Jaded Gay. I'm Rob Loveless and today I am a non-jaded gay because I've been working on some little house improvements here and there just to make it a little nicer. Nothing super handy; I'm not macho man tearing down walls or doing a complete renovation but just some little changes.

And really, this week I focused on, I have a little powder room downstairs that it used to be very cramped. and there's a stacked laundry machine and a little tiny sink just kind of sticking off of the wall and a toilet. and it always just kind of felt like an awkward space but I mean, obviously, there's you know, laundry and a toilet in there.

So, it's definitely usable. But I just wanted it to feel a little bit more like you know, a powder room and not just like a cramped laundry room. So, I'm making it Philly-themed. I got a picture for the one wall I got a bigger mirror to make the space feel bigger. some little accents, like a new soap pump, a hand towel. I'm planning to also get some little Philly trinket things like you know, a little picture of the Liberty Bell, some historic stuff like that to put on some shelves in there.

Down the road, I do want to get like a standalone cabinet to kind of put underneath the sink so that way it's a little bit more closed off. And depending on that I might get a fake plant like a fake tall plant like a boxwood or something to put next to the sink because there's an awkward gap between the stacked laundry machine and the wall. And you could just see clear back to where the painters couldn't reach with paint So it's two different colors. So just something there to kind of block it off.

But again, just make it feel more cozy and nice. And you know, I love decorating and I know it's super gay. Here I am talking about decorating and decorating a powder room nonetheless. And just using the term powder room is gay. But hey, I'm gay. This is a gay podcast. What are ya gonna do?

Queer Horror (2:17)

Rob Loveless

Anyway, from powder rooms to dressing rooms. I am super excited to have our guest on for today. He is a jack of all trades. And recently his debut film, Departing Seniors, was released, which was amazing. I loved it, definitely recommend watching it. So, we're going to talk all things about his movie, the importance of representation, both in front of cameras and behind them, the queerness in horror, and all that fun stuff.

But before we do that, let's pull the tarot card.

Tarot (2:48)

Rob Loveless

So, today's card is the King of Pentacles. And Pentacles, as you know, is a Minor Arcana card tied to the element of earth.

Earth is very grounding and stabilizing. And it's feminine energy so it's typically more meditative in nature. But the king is symbolically tied to masculine energy, which is action-oriented.

So, this card is a balance of both energies. Pentacles is all about hard work and reaping the fruits of your labor. It's tied to prosperity, but I like to focus it more on emotional prosperity. And the king is the final card in the Pentacles suit. So, it's telling us that we've completed the end of a cycle or journey.

And when we draw this card, it's representing a person with stability, generosity, and drive. It's tied to leadership and taking action to reach a goal. And this person could be us or someone in our lives. So, this card is really reminding us that our goals are always within reach.

And just because we've reached the end of one cycle doesn't mean we're finished because when one cycle ends when we achieve something, another one begins there's something new to work towards.

Guest Introduction (3:49)

Rob Loveless

So, with that in mind, let's get into the episode. He is an actor, screenwriter, and fellow NineStar Press author, and a whole lot more things that I can't list off because there's just way too many to name. But I'm very excited to introduce our next guest.

Please welcome Jose Nateras. Hi Jose, how are you?

Jose Nateras

Good. How about you?

Rob Loveless 

Doing well, thanks. It's a Friday so can't complain.

Jose Nateras

Right?

Rob Loveless

So, kicking off the episode, you know, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, how you identify, pronouns, all that fun stuff?

Jose Nateras

Yeah. My name is Jose Nateras. He/him/his. I am gay. I am Mexican American. Yeah, about myself. I'm from Chicago. I'm in Los Angeles Now. I say I'm from Chicago but my dad is a retired Marine. So, we moved around a lot when I was a kid. But my extended family is all on like the south/southwest side of the city. Pilsen, Back of the Yards. And I went to junior high and high school in the northwest suburbs, and then I was in the city from college on. and then I moved to LA about four years ago now.

Rob Loveless 

So, a little bit of a globetrotter there.

Jose Nateras

A little bit, yeah. A little, a little bit. We try.

Rob Loveless

Well, I do like to ask all my guests this, today are you a jaded or non-jaded gay and why?

Jose Nateras

Today I'm gonna go with non-jaded. And I think that's because, I guess I'm looking forward to a nice weekend. So, I'm feeling a little optimistic.

Rob Loveless 

Good, we always love a non-jaded gay in the house. And it really just depends on the day, you know?

Jose Nateras

Very much so. It comes and goes.

Jose’s Career (5:17)

Rob Loveless

Awesome. Well, I'm very excited to have you join us here. We will be talking all about your movie Departing Seniors shortly. But before we get into that, kind of want to talk about your career leading up to this, some horror themes, all that so, you know, let's just start right off. Can you tell us about your career as an actor and writer?

Jose Nateras

Yeah, yeah. Um, so I have joked before, but it's pretty much true that I wanted to be an actor and writer since I knew that those were things that I could be.

So as a very young child, I was already writing stories. And around the age when you realize like TV isn't real, I pretty much decided that I wanted to be an actor. So that's something that I always knew that I wanted to do. And that kind of translated to me doing school plays and stuff as a kid. Being really involved in like arts programs and things as much as I was able to.

And then I went to Loyola University Chicago for undergrad, where I studied Theatre and International Film & Media Studies. So, while I was there, you know, I was doing a lot of plays. I had written and produced some short films in high school, like, it's just like high school projects with friends. And I continued that in school, and I continued writing and doing these things, as well as acting.

My first professional acting gig was the summer after my freshman year of undergrad. So, I had to be like 18, 19. And that was doing a play at a theater in the northwest suburbs of Chicago. So that was like the first time that I ever got paid to act, you know, to do any of that. And from then on, I was kind of always working. Even in school, I would work in the summers doing like different professional plays and productions and stuff.

I signed with my first agent upon graduating from undergrad. Was doing a lot of theater in Chicago; Chicago is a great theater scene. And my first TV gig was like, I want to say maybe 2012, for Chicago Fire. So I was in Chicago, I did pretty much all the Chicago shows, anything that was filming in Chicago, you know. At the very least, auditioned for, but pretty much got to be on all of them.

And all that time while I was doing the theater and the TV and film stuff there, I was writing. So, I had started kind of as a playwright, in addition to the little short films that I would make. And I was in a playwright circle. So, I wrote some full-length stage plays that got produced.

And then I took a screenwriting class at Second City. Second City's like the big comedy, school theater in Chicago. So, I had done improv and stuff there, but I took the screenwriting course, and it had to be like 2015. And the way that they structure the classes, it's like 101; teaches you how to write the first half of the screenplay, and then you take like level two, and they teach you to write the second half of the screenplay.

I just paid for the first one. I was like, you taught me how to write half. I'll do the other half on my own. But that screenplay was Departing Seniors. So, the very first versions of that feature-length screenplay were written in 2015 or so. And at the time, the script went into my portfolio for grad school.

So, I got my MFA in writing from the School of the Art Institute of Chicago. And it was nice in general, it let me write in all the different kinds of writing that there are. So, I wrote the manuscript for my novel while I was there. I wrote a couple of other feature-length screenplays, started doing freelance journalism. Any type of writing there is, I did it.

But yeah, so Departing Seniors kind of went with me into school. And while I was in school there, Dashawna Wright, who is my producing partner, the lead producer on Departing Seniors, aside from myself, was in school at Columbia College, Chicago, which is like right down the street. They're like, kind of right in the same neighborhood. And they had a master's in producing at the time.

And so, we got put together through a couple of different things and continued to move. I know we'll talk about Departing Seniors as we continue our conversation, but that kind of continued on the way. All the while I was acting, writing, blah, blah, blah.

Pretty much did everything I could in Chicago, so I decided to move to Los Angeles. So moved to LA in October of 2019, about six months before COVID shut the whole world down.

And I've been here ever since. And while I've been here, I've been able to continue working as an actor, writer. Now I also am a producer and a filmmaker and all the rest on top of it.

Rob Loveless

That is absolutely incredible. Like, that's quite the resume. I wanted to say, you know, triple threat but I think we've run out of numbers. I don't know how many that would be for a threat. But I mean, writing, producing, theater, screenwriting. Clearly, you like to take things easy, it sounds like.

Jose Nateras

I'm a bit of an over-committer. Yeah, it's less of a triple threat and just more a general sense of threatening is what I bring to the table.

Rob Loveless

I definitely relate to that with the over-committing. And I don't know about, you know, your perceptions of it. But I feel that with writing, I like it because it's one of those things you can kind of do passively if you need to.

So, you can go about your day and, you know, whether it's auditions or working in an office or podcasting or whatnot, you can go and do those things. And then, you know, you can carve out time to just write a page or something. It doesn't have to be like, throw yourself into it necessarily that you need to lock yourself in a room and write for seven days straight, you know?

Jose Nateras

Oh, totally. I mean, it's funny, because in grad school, the first time. I'm actually in school again at the moment, but um, when I was getting my MFA in writing, it was an art school. So, it's very kind of like loosey-goosey in a sort of fashion that isn't really me as a person, but I really benefited from being in that environment.

But they would always ask, like, what is writing? And at the time, I would always like roll my eyes and be like writing is writing. Come on, guys, like, like, let's just do it.

But you're right. There is a sort of element to it, that it's kind of always happening. Like if you're a writer, you're having conversations, you're living your life to a certain extent and that's part of the writing process.

So, it's nice, I think because in as much as you do need to make some time to actually put the words on the page, there's an element of you that's always seeing and observing and synthesizing and processing. And that kind of makes all the other stuff feel connected to me. So, I love it.

Rob Loveless

That's awesome. And I feel like, too, kind of like you said, you know, you experience things through life. So even when you're not actively writing, an experience might happen. And you're like, oh, I can fictionalize that. That might make a good, you know, plot point or something like that.

So, the writer brain's never really off, you know?

Jose Nateras

Very much so

Rob Loveless

Well and also, that's very exciting too that your first, your first attempt at screenwriting ended up being Departing Seniors.

Which I mean, I know, it's not just, oh, I did it once, and here's luck. It was, I'm sure, a lot of work leading up to, with writing your manuscripts and acting and getting to know theatre and all that.

But I mean, to really, your first foray into it to be a success. That's amazing.

Jose Nateras

Thank you. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of weird, because it's one of those things where in this industry and in this art form, everything takes so long, you know?

Where it's like, yeah, it's my first, the first screenplay I wrote. But I've written a number of screenplays since and after all those other screenplays have been written, now Departing Seniors is out in the world. So, in the same way as that it feels like it's my first, it also feels like my sixth.

Even though you look at the writing, and you're like, oh, I've grown a lot as a writer. Oh, I've changed a lot as a writer, as a person, since the very first versions of that script kind of emerged. It's, it's weird, because I'm not the same person now, when we were making it than I was when I first wrote it.

So, it's an interesting thing, how it's very, like cyclical. It's, um, it, nothing happens quickly. Even if something seems like oh, wow, you came out of nowhere. Oh, wow, you know, whatever. It's like, oh, well, there was there was a lot to get there across the board. Yeah.

LGBTQ+ Influences in Media (13:26)

Rob Loveless

I mean, it's a lot of the behind-the-scenes before you kind of get to the spotlight eventually.

And I know we keep teasing listeners. We say, you know, we'll get to it, we'll be talking about Departing Seniors, but that's how we keep them listening through the episode.

But before we fully get to it, going off of that, you know, growing up and aspiring to break into acting and writing, was LGBTQ+ representation in media important to you?

Jose Nateras

Yeah, it was. I mean, alongside being a gay man, I'm also a Mexican American, so I'm Latino. And representation is something that has always sort of mattered in ways that, when you're young, you don't really understand or really register.

But I did find influencing me even as a child, especially because I was somebody who knew what I wanted to do so early on. But for a lot of my life, I was always kind of searching, searching for somebody that I could see myself reflected in that wasn't there. And that's hard. It makes you feel like you don't exist, you know? It makes it feel like it's really hard to imagine a future for yourself if you're not seeing examples in the stories that matter to you as a child.

You know, I remember being young, wanting to be an actor and reading Harry Potter. And you know, child delusion. The very first movie came out when I was 11. You know, I'm the same age as, like, Daniel Radcliffe, and all those people or whatever. But I remember when that movie came out, and just like looking at the screen and being like, aw it should have been me. You know, just like the delusional child of like, I should have played Harry Potter as this like, little Mexican boy in suburban Chicago, you know? Like, absolutely not.

But I think part of it is, I was hungry to see myself as a hero in the story, in the type of stories that I care about, you know? And as an actor, especially as I got into it as a career, a lot of those auditions, especially early on, were gangbangers or lawn care professionals or immigrants, you know, all of these other things.

And it's not to say that those characters in those stories don't matter. They do, A, but B, they're not being told in a way to reflect and respect that they matter, right? They're always plot devices, side elements, you know, background information, or whatever, for the white cis straight hetero heroes to kind of deal with or navigate.

But B, that's not it. Like, that's not all of the experience of being Latino in the United States/the world, you know. And that's not the sort of limitations that I want for the future for myself or for other people. 

So, I always knew that those things mattered to me and it also applied to my experience as a gay man, you know? I didn't really see a version of queerness that represented me or how I felt. And when you're young and sort of figuring out who you are, especially if you don't have like a lot of queer adults in your life.

And you know, in the early 2000s, A, there wasn't a lot of examples in the media, but B, in suburban Chicago, I didn't have a lot of that, like, not overt out queerness in my environment. Now, in retrospect, you're like, oh, yeah. And now, today, even in, you know, when we were making this movie, I went back and did a talk at my old high school. Just that, the presence and visibility of queerness is different, so much different now than it was.

But that hunger did matter to me, you know when you're figuring out or coming to terms with your sexuality. You're like, oh, I can't be gay, because the only gay people I see on TV are like that or like this. And I'm not like that. I'm not like this. And a lot of that leads to internalized homophobia, you know. A lot of that leads to self-hate, a lot of that makes it a lot harder to come to terms with who you are or figure out who you are or come to terms with your sexuality.

So like, representation in media isn't just, oh, we need to see it because it's a good, you know, motto. Representation matters. It matters because these stories affect the way we live our lives and figure out who we are and how we move through the world. And it opens the doors to possibility in the future, you know?

It's really hard for queer youth to imagine a future for themselves if they're not seeing an example of that somewhere. So yeah, and that's a little bit wordy, but all that's to say that, yes, these things have always mattered for me, to me.

And I've always wanted to make sure that I'm creating opportunities for performers like myself. For myself? Sure. But like myself, in whatever, fill-in-the-blank sort of definition that that might apply.

Rob Loveless

I've had a few other guests on to talk about topics in the past too. And something, a constant theme that's come up is a lot of media representation for so long has been what we've kind of unofficially dubbed, like, you know, the 90s gay archetype where it's, you know, the white, you know, muscular, straight passing, cisgender gay man, who either, you know, is very suave and cool and put together and has all these big career highlights, or they're like the sexless, sassy, gay best friend.

And then that's just, you know, and there's so many layers, that because there's body diversity, racial diversity, gender diversity, you know. There's so many more letters and aspects within the LGBTQ+ umbrella. And it's really important to get those stories out there because, like you said, to just see yourself.

I've had this conversation with some straight friends and family in my life. And I don't think, unless you're gay, or, you know, a minority, I don't think straight, white people can quite understand. But until you've gone through that feeling like the outsider, you don't know how much it means to see someone like you on the screen.

And again, you know, for so long, it has been white cisgender gay men. I do think, you know, we're, we've come a ways from that, but there's still a lot more work in terms of including total LGBTQ+ diversity in that.

Jose Nateras

Yeah, for sure. And I mean, it's not even just about the characters. I think it's also about the types of stories, you know? Being able to not just be the lead, but be the lead in a story that doesn't hinge on your identity as a queer person, as a person of color, or whatever.

And it's not that those things don't matter. But when that is the focus of the type of story being told, it sets it aside. It like puts it in a different world. You know, it doesn't ground us in the same sort of world as everybody else. And that's a problem, right? Because then it's this way of being like, oh, well, that's over there. I don't have to worry about that, you know?

Which is why I think genre matters. Which is why I think like, it's important that the only queer stories being told aren't tragedy porn, sad, AIDS crisis, queer-bashing, like coming out stories. As much as coming out stories matter and as much as queer people, we all have them, they've been traumatic to various extents or not, so.

And I think that's changing for younger queer people, which is great. I don't really need to see another coming out story, you know? Those exist and that's not the entirety of what the experience is, you know?

The entirety of what the experience as a queer person is isn't all wrapped up in coming to terms with our queerness, either, you know? We are people, we're queer, we love each other, we hate some people, like, you know? We do all the things that everybody else does.

And that's not to say, I'm not like somebody that is like, oh, we should all try to, you know, it's not about just being like, oh, we're just like everybody else. But we are like, it can be both at once. It's not about, um, what's the word? Assimilating, right?

I'm not about queer assimilation or queer erasure. I think there's value in being able to be just a human being, and also be this weird, specific elements that belong to the queer identity, as much as anything else. I think we need to be able to find room for the nuances of that conversation.

Rob Loveless

Definitely. So, with that in mind, you know, I know you've talked about the whole Harry Potter experience when you were younger. What were some LGBTQ+ shows, characters, or actors who really inspired you in your career?

Jose Nateras

So, it's interesting because I'm a big genre person. I'm a big nerd. I'm a big, like, fantasy horror is literally my vibe. That's the thing that I've devoted a lot of my career, time, and energy on, in a variety of factors. 

But I've talked about it before, how Xena the Warrior Princess is kind of a big influence on who I am as a person in a lot of different ways. You know, as a kid, in the early '90s, my parents didn't want us watching Power Rangers because they said it was too violent. But we could watch Xena, and Hercules.

Xena, specifically, which is far more violent, and like not a kid's show. But like they would watch it with us. And I think it was something they were more interested in watching. And so, for them, we could be supervised and talk about and they would watch it together. And my dad was always like, well, it's based on Greek mythology so it's educational. Which proved out to be true because it got me reading very, like advanced Greek mythology at a very young age and all of this stuff. And this was way pre-Percy Jackson, you know.

But that show is written and directed or produced by Sam Raimi and Rob Tapert who did the original Evil Dead. And Bruce Campbell would pop up across as an actor in these different things. And so that's a non sequitur.

But I remember there was this episode of Xena the Warrior Princess, where I mean, A, Xena is queer. Like you go and it's vaguely subtextual but it's pretty overtly textual. Her relationship with Gabriella, you know. I remember them kissing on TV and being like, oh, my God, what, what is happening? But there was an episode where Xena goes undercover at a beauty pageant. And there was somebody who I mean, it's like A, the '90s, B, set in ancient Greece.

So, the identity of the character was kind of ambiguous, but it was basically presented to be a man in drag as one of the participants. And I think the performer was actually a trans performer who since passed. But it was one of the first times where I saw that and like that sort of play with gender. And it wasn't really a joke, like the character was presented in a way that it's like, just kind of this earnest person who's like, this is who I am. And being in this beauty pageant is the one, one of the few places where the performance of femininity is a benefit.

And Xena befriends this person and it's like, I don't know, it's weirdly sweet. It feels a little dated, because you know, this was decades ago now. But I remember that whole show being a sort of like, oh, this, something that feels weird and different and out there feels comforting to me.

Buffy the Vampire Slayer was a huge influence on me. So, the Willow character and that Tara relationship was one of the first times where you see like, queer love that, I don't know, that I was like, okay, cool. Will & Grace kind of after the fact. You know, I feel like after I came out, Will & Grace was something that my mom was able to watch and like, get okay with. Like, you know, process things to a certain level. So, I always kind of like have a soft spot in my heart for that show.

Sense8, so a Wachowski show. Very queer. But it was one of the, there was a gay, these two gay Mexican characters in the show. And that was maybe like, one of the very first times where I was like, I feel kind of seen by these characters.

There's a little, little, but they were like, they were like hot masc presenting guys, which isn't necessarily what represents me. But I mean, sure, I'm hot and masc. No, I'm kidding.

But one of the characters is an actor, like, is this gay Mexican actor. So, I was like, oh, shit, that's, I've never seen that before. And the other character, like his boyfriend, was, like, a gay Mexican professor of, like, Media & Film Studies. And, you know, I'm getting my PhD right now. And so that was something that also made me feel seen, like, you know?

So being able to see facets of myself in those characters were good, too. So yeah, all of like, just all of it in a blender kind of inspired me across the, across the spectrum.

Departing Seniors (22:27)

Rob Loveless

And I think we'll probably get into it a bit more. But some of the themes you had talked about in terms of your representation of LGBTQ+ people in storylines, other than just traditional queer narratives, and also, seeing your ethnicity represented, I'm sure carried over into your movie.

So that being said, listeners don't have to wait any more. We're not going to tease too much longer. Tell us all about Departing Seniors.

Jose Nateras

Yes. Departing Seniors is a feature film. It's a horror comedy, high school, slasher, supernatural thriller. It is about Javier, this high school senior who is this gay, Mexican American kid in the suburbs of Chicago, who, after this act of bullying, ends up developing this ability to have visions. So, he has a psychic ability. 

And using that psychic ability, he kind of uncovers the fact that what has been assumed to be a rash of these tragic teenage suicides is actually the actions of a masked psycho killer. And then him and his best friend, Bianca, have to sort of save the day. Unmask the killer, before it's too late. And that's the brief elevator pitch of Departing Seniors.

But yeah, it was literally the very first screenplay that I ever wrote. Other big influences and inspirations for me are Kevin Williamson, who is an openly queer screenwriter. He wrote Scream, The Faculty, and The Vampire Diaries and all of this stuff. And he's whenever that, screenwriters by name don't get a lot of like name recognition. He's one of the few that does, and there's a good reason for it. And I love his work and have been very, very influenced and inspired by his work.

And so, Departing Seniors is very much a love letter to that sort of genre of teen slasher, as much as it's a love letter to high school comedies, dark comedies. Things like Heathers, Mean Girls, Clueless, Bring It On, all had their DNA, very deeply embedded in there as much as The Dead Zone by Stephen King, who's a big influence on me. I love Stephen King. Carrie and other genre hits, just all of it. Again, put in a blender, mix it up.

I'm somebody that believes in wearing your influences on your sleeve, you know? Being direct and open and proud of the things that have made you who you are. So that's kind of where Departing Seniors came from.

It was directed by Clare Cooney, who's this amazing female director. Friend of mine from Chicago, who, we both moved to LA at the same time. My lead producer, Dashawna Wright, and I worked on it together. And you know, she's a Black female producer.

And our goal from the beginning was to have as many fem BIPOC queer artists behind the table all the way across the board. And, you know, after I don't even know how long, over like over a decade worth of working in the arts and entertainment industry, I have never been involved in a project that was quite this diverse and specifically intentionally diverse. And that was something I was really proud to be able to make happen for this project.

Rob Loveless

And with the movies you were talking about, I did hear you mention Clueless. And I was wondering, did I notice in Departing Seniors, were there a few Clueless references and also potentially a Grease reference?

Jose Nateras

There were definitely, definitely intentional Clueless references in departing seniors. It was one of, I don't think it's a spoiler, but there's this line where Javier, his best friend's name is Bianca. And she is very, like very dry, sarcastic, witty, sharp. One point she like calls him out for being dumb. And he goes like, that's way harsh B.

And it's definitely, it was very much a reference to Clueless. And it's crazy because our cast is quite young, like they're all in their early 20s playing high schoolers who look like high schoolers. We were very intentional about that. But they had not seen Clueless.

So, me and Clare, the director, we had to like, be like, hey, so this line specifically is a Clueless reference. You don't have to, like you're telling Ignacio who played Javier is like, you don't have to like, don't imitate Alicia Silverstone. But know that this is what this is.

And I'm so glad that you picked up on it. And I'm so glad that other people have too because like, that's the point, right? Like, all of these things aren't meant to be like, oh, you know, he's just ripping it off. I'm like, no, I want you to know, like, look at it.

Because I love that movie. And I want you, who also loved that movie, to recognize that this, like, triangle of love that's happening. But yes, there is an overt Clueless reference in there.

You mentioned Grease too. There might be. I'm trying to remember where, where the Grease reference might have been.

Rob Loveless

I wasn't sure with the announcer that they have, like...

Jose Nateras

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Rob Loveless

...the bell at the beginning kind of reminded me of the tone.

Jose Nateras

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I feel like that was actually something that our editors, or sound designers kind of layered in there.

But um, you know, the very, very original early days of Grease, when it was a stage musical before was a movie, was also set in Chicagoland. Which is a little bit of trivia, but yeah. And there's a lot of John Hughes vibes to the movie. And actually, there's a Ferris Bueller reference.

But the way in which all of his, like, high school movies are, like, set in an unnamed suburban high school, and he made all those movies in Chicago, Chicagoland, which is literally what we did.

Love of the Horror Genre (32:00)

Rob Loveless

Nice. And it sounds like you're a huge movie buff, which I love. I'm very much the same. And I know you said, you know, you're a big fan of the horror genre. But has that always been a genre that you've been into? Like, when did you start watching horror movies and really having that inspire what you wanted to do?

Jose Nateras

Okay, I'm so glad you asked because this makes my Xena tangent feel less crazy from earlier, but um.

I always liked spooky stuff. You know, I loved Scooby Doo as a child, and, like, Halloween episodes of my favorite shows were always my favorite. But as a kid, I was very scared of these things.

But as I mentioned, I used to love Xena the Warrior Princess. And Bruce Campbell had a recurring role as Autolycus, Prince of Thieves, or whatever. And he's also the lead of the Evil Dead movies because Sam Raimi and Rob Tapert produced those movies.

And when I was maybe like nine or so, my older brother was visiting and he was watching Army of Darkness. Army of Darkness came on TV, which is the third movie in the Evil Dead series. And I recognize Bruce Campbell from Xena in that movie.

And that movie also has like, a pretty heavy, like, slapstick comedy element. But I watched that movie. And since I knew who Bruce Campbell was, since I recognized Bruce Campbell, and since there was this comedic element, I was able to watch pretty much the entirety of this movie without being scared, which was kind of a first for me.

And from that age on, I was able to engage with horror films and not be frightened by them. Like, I was able to kind of embrace this thing that I always loved, because I always loved those sorts of things but I was so scared of it. But from then on, I was able to do it without being scared. And it's been a huge influence on me across the board, just in terms of the things that I write, the way that I process the world.

You know, my PhD is actually focusing on the horror genre as it relates to marginalized identity. So, it's something that, like, has really, really done right by me in terms of a genre. And, you know, I love, I love it.

And so, I'm glad that you asked because it feels a little bit less random that I spent so much time talking about Xena earlier on because I do correlate the two.

Rob Loveless

And I'm so glad that you brought up working on that piece about the horror genre as it relates to marginalized communities because that was literally my next question.

Jose Nateras  

Okay.

The Horror Genre’s Queer Appeal (34:26)

Rob Loveless

I was going to ask, do you think, do you think the horror genre has a queer appeal, and if so, why?

Jose Nateras

Yeah, yeah. Um, so I think a lot of people have written about this in a couple of different ways. And it's definitely something I'm spending time doing research on in a couple of different facets too.

One of the theories that I've talked about with people is that I think a big part of the queer experience is being afraid. You know, when you're young, especially if you're closeted, you're afraid every day, you know? You're afraid of walking the wrong way or people noticing the way you hold your wrist or the way you talk, like you're afraid of the secret being found out. So, there's always, your everyday experiences is grounded in this fear.

If you're Catholic or from a Christian tradition, which I am, you know, there's the very real fear of eternal damnation and hellfire in your future if you are this or that, right? So, there is literally that sort of fear. 

And then you can watch a movie like Drag Me to Hell and see this pretty straight white lady get dragged to hell. And it's campy because, again, it's actually Sam Raimi and Rob Tapert in it. It's got camp and this sense of humor, and it's entertaining and there's this roller coaster and catharsis.

And you can take that fear and expel it, right, you can. The catharsis is all about being able to just get it out of you, to experience it, to go through it, and no longer hold on to it. And so, I think to a certain extent, that is an element of why the horror genre means a lot for us.

Very often, otherwise, people like queer folks or minorities or anybody that fits outside of the norm is presented as the scary monster for mainstream society. So, the horror genre really spends a lot of time, more time than other genres, looking at that. Like, looking at the other, looking at the thing that is supposed to be scary and threatening.

And when you feel like that, when you're feeling like you're wrong or you're different or you're dangerous or perverse, right, like all of these words people try to use to describe queer communities. Like, you feel seen, even if it is as the monster. And sometimes that equals rooting for the monster, right? 

Sometimes the monster's the most fun that can't be won, like Freddy Krueger is why you go back to Nightmare on Elm Street, right? Like the heroes change, Freddy stays the same, right? That's why you go back to that. So, there's something about that, too, that is, you know, satisfying.

It's also a genre that centers on female survivorship, right? Like strong badass females with this sort of final girl trope. And for queer people, I mean, queer fems and people that identify as female or whatever, right? Like that matters for them, but also for gay men who are told that our feminine aspects are what's wrong with us. Being too girly is what's wrong with us, being too effeminate is what is trying to be beat out of us, right?

To see female figures survive and thrive often because of their femininity. You know, we relate to that, like, that's why we love the divas, that's why we love these, like, larger-than-life female characters. It's kind of the roots of drag, right? Taking the thing that you're being belittled for and being like, okay, you're gonna belittle me for being girly? Well, look at the extent to which I will be girly to throw that back at you, right?

And I think all of that stuff kind of shakes down into elements of why the horror genre really resonates for queer people.

Rob Loveless

And I love that you brought up Nightmare on Elm Street because, actually, Nightmare on Elm Street 2 is, like, very, very queer-coded, I think. And the main character, his name is Jesse, I don't know the actor who played him.

But he was actually kind of labeled as the first male scream queen, because normally you would traditionally have, you know, the female scream queen leads, but he was the first. There's a lot of, like, gay subtext there. I believe he actually identified as gay in real life too. So, it's interesting to see that, but some fun movie trivia there.

But, like you said too with the, you know, sometimes you're rooting for the bad guy, sometimes you're rooting for the main character. I think another thing that comes up is, whether it's the quote-unquote bad guy or the person who's trying to save the day, there tends to be a theme of them being the outsider who the town overlooks.

And, you know, they're trying, if they're the person who's quote-unquote the good guy, they're trying to save the day and warn the town of this danger, but nobody takes him seriously. So, I think there's definitely kind of a queer parallel there.

Jose Nateras

Definitely.

Developing Departing Seniors (39:14)

Rob Loveless

Well, circling back to Departing Seniors. I know you talked about growing up in the suburbs, outside Chicago. So how did you come up with the idea for departing seniors and did any personal experiences beyond where you grew up, especially as an LGBTQ+, person shape the movie's storyline?

Jose Nateras

Yeah, um, both of those things are pretty related. Javier, as a character in the movie, is very much a facet version fictionalized history of me. Like, it's very true to who I was, as well who I am, and facets of who I was, as a teenager kind of put through this weird sort of Hollywood, not Hollywood; we made it and Chicagoland.

But um, you know, this cinematic lens of characterization. It's kind of a mix between the things that I wish I was and the things that I hated about myself at that point.

I originally came up with it, I was writing it in 2015; I was a little bit younger. And at that point, I was feeling a little bit of frustration with regards to the roles that I was being considered for as an actor.

And being a gay Mexican actor in particular, like, I don't know if I ever auditioned for a role that was those things. And specifically, a gay Mexican character that was like me, you know, like, nerdy, horror films, like, you know, kind of middle of the line in terms of that fem/masc thing.

And letting that be okay, as opposed to feeling not gay enough, because I'm not X, Y, Z or too gay, because I'm not A, B, C or whatever, you know. I never saw a role that fit that, I never saw a character that fit that. So, it's like, I want to create that opportunity for myself or for other actors like me because part of being an actor is knowing that there are a lot of people like you, for better or worse.

And I had also taught, I had also taught high schoolers a bit at that point. And so, the teaching element was part of it too. My experience in the suburbs of high school deeply influenced it.

So, I went to high school in a town called Elmhurst, and the town in the movies called Springhurst. You know, my high school mascot were the Dukes and the mascot in the movie are the Barons. You know, there's, there's a lot of like, we actually were able to model the, the mascot that you see on the logos and stuff after my mascot from high school and things like that. So, a lot of it sort of made it in there.

Almost all of the characters that you see on that screen are a bit of me to a certain extent. And a lot of writers say that and I mean, I'm sure it's true for a lot of writers, but I can really pinpoint specific elements of the bully characters, of the teacher characters, of the friend characters, that are literally parts of who I am as a person. So, a lot of it really is sort of grounded in that.

And as much as it's grounded in my real experience, it's also grounded in the movies that shaped me. So that DNA making it in there, like, those influences aren't just influences for influences sake, you know? 

The Bring It On, stuff mattered to me when I saw that movie. Like those characters, I remember that the character of what's her face's brother meant a lot when I first watched that movie, because it was, he's kind of this like, post-punk guy.

And it was a moment when I was going through puberty, or whatever, where I was, like, I'm really drawn to this guy, this character. And I think it's because I want to be him. But also, I'm in love with him. And that's a character that is like, wearing Ramones t-shirts and like flannels and stuff. And that became part of my personality.

So of course, all of that DNA makes it into the movie. So, the ideas came from both a desire to have opportunities that were closely more related to me and my interests. And the ideas and the characters within it were very much grounded in my experience and the person that I was across the board. Yeah.

Rob Loveless

Well, with the characters being based off of some of your experiences, when you were in high school, did you ever, like Javier, have any visions or paranormal experiences?

Jose Nateras

That's a good question. Um not to that extent, I would say. I will say that, like, my experience in high school was kind of shaped by a sense of foresight, to a certain extent. I mean, being Mexican, there's a sort of cultural comfortability with elements of reality that some people would probably think magical, or far-fetched, or supernatural, or whatever.

But I remember more practically speaking, at that time, knowing that everything I was going through was part of my story. You know, unknowing that, like some future version of myself, would look back at both the good and bad things and be glad that they happened. And so, my time in high school, I was able to ride the ups and downs of that journey with that sort of awareness.

That sort of like glancing into the future that isn't necessarily like a vision of it. But um, I was right because, you know, I was able to write that stuff into a movie, you know, like, it's true. Like it's a prophecy that was able to be fulfilled to a certain extent, knowing that like me forcing my friends to watch The Faculty for my birthday was all going to come in handy when I was channeling Kevin Williamson and his high school slasher 20 years down the line or whatever.

That being said, I wasn't out in high school. I didn't come out until my, the summer between my junior and senior year of college. So, a big part of Javier's journey is he's not coming out in this movie, he is out. He's just him. You know, that's, that's who his character in the movie, and his sexuality in the movie is never something that he's grappling with, you know. He's completely fine with who he is.

And that was something that was important to me because that was almost a gift to my younger self. And able to create a version of the world where it's like, what would my life look like if I was further ahead on that journey at that period in time? Which, because of the world and because of so many different things, and because of the time, wasn't viable for me then.

But yeah, that's a that's a bit of a circular answer to your question. But yeah.

Rob Loveless

And I love that piece, you said about writing parts of Javier's character, were kind of like for yourself, like writing that for yourself at his age because in, I can't even remember the episode now, but we talked about in one of the episodes with some acts of self-care, especially when it comes to, you know, overcoming queer grief and internalized homophobia, just kind of writing a letter to your younger self or kind of vision, visualizing yourself as an adult, sitting down with your younger self and like, apologizing for not having the life you should have had at that time, because you felt the need to be closeted, because of what society told you. So, you know, it's a really great and creative way of putting that together. And, you know, creating that for yourself.

Jose Nateras

Yeah, I mean, it's. I'm in school So I spend a lot of time thinking about these theorists that I'm reading. But I was in a course where we were talking about Black, queer feminist theory specifically. And I can't remember if it was this writer theorist named Tavia N'Yongo or not because it came up a couple of times. 

But this idea of fabulation, right, and queer fabulation, and fabulation being the sort of like, it's not quite lying, it's not quite rewriting history. But it's this sort of way of being able to look at the past and create something alternate there in order for us to move on and process, like, the traumas of being queer, or the histories of slavery, from the Black theoretical perspective, you know, all of these different things. 

This way of imagining a different history for ourselves to enable a different future. And I think it's powerful and important. And it's a tool that, you know, is rooted in the queer experience as much as it's rooted in the Black fem experience and all of these different things, and it's something that you don't realize you do, you know? It's something that I can only recognize now because we're having this conversation.

But like, I took a whole course on it and wrote about it in other papers, and being able to be like, oh, shit, that is something that is actually part of my practice and matters beyond, you know, just being able to give young me a hug, right?

Like there's value in it for other generations and for imagining potentials for other people who were just like me when I was that age out in the world now.

Challenging Horror Stereotypes (48:23)

Rob Loveless

And with that in mind, and I think you might have touched upon this earlier, but were there any specific stereotypes you aimed to debunk in this movie?

Jose Nateras

Yeah, I mean, I don't think I thought about it overtly for most of it. Like most of it, I was like, just thinking about how I operate and think about these things and the ways in which just being true to myself kind of negates stereotypes to a certain extent. So being able to do that.

One thing that I was conscious about was there's a, there's a scene where we actually see Javier's dad, and it's a little bit of a throwaway line about him being a college professor that's just sort of like places him as a career, as being an educator in higher ed.

And that was important to me because in terms of like, stereotypes, for Mexican parental figures, or Mexican, or like, Latino, whatever, in cinema, you know, I'm always like, I've played undocumented immigrants who work in car shops. I've done a lot of like car-related industries, in film and TV, like, yeah, you know? Or the gardener or the whatever, right?

And it's something that I hadn't seen in media before and that was important to me to sort of like, be like, okay, yeah, we can counter a stereotype of what this dad looks like, what this household looks like, painting a picture of, you know, middle class, Mexican American family. And the dad's job is this.

I didn't see my first Latino professor until I was in grad school. So that was like after what, 20 years of education before I had a Latino teacher? And in higher ed at that, right? And I have been an adjunct English professor as a PhD student, like, you know, teaching and professorring is like something that I'm kind of investing in, as a career, as a facet of my career, right?

So, knowing that, like, we exist, we're out there. How come I've never seen them on TV or in a movie? That was something that I consciously wanted to incorporate as a little bit of a subversion of stereotypes.

Other things, this is only vaguely spoilery, but making sure that the characters who were experiencing violence or intentional violence or targeted violence were not fem or BIPOC, specifically. That was an intentional subversion of the stereotypes from a genre perspective.

Rob Loveless

Definitely. Because I think that has been, I don't know if trope's the right word, but for a long time, people have talked about, like, oh, the Black person gets killed first.

And it's, I mean, if you go back and watch '90s, early 2000s movies, you see that all the time, and it's, it's almost like they're the token diversity person so they can say, there's diversity in the movie, and then they toss them off the scene as soon as they can.

Jose Nateras

Yeah, yeah. Or they're sacrificing themselves to save the white character, you know? To return to Nightmare on Elm Street. You know, Kelly Rowland's character...

Kelly Rowland from Freddy vs. Jason

What kind of faggot runs around in a Christmas sweater?

Jose Nateras

...you know, like, all of that stuff. Yeah. So, um, some of it wasn't necessarily intentional, so much as me engaging with the truth of who I felt these characters to be, and the truths of the genre. And, you know, just navigating that. And then there were a couple of like, conscious decisions.

One thing that people pointed out after the fact that I didn't realize was that Javier, as a queer character, kind of stood out because he would fight back against his bullies. Like he, a couple of times you see him be the person to push first, you know, to, he's never beaten down, right, he's always kind of coming back with sharp quips. He's not like, he doesn't allow the bullying to belittle him.

And I didn't realize that that was a subversion of stereotype or different. I don't think I realized the expectation for a gay man specifically to be made small by the bullying and belittlement that is bestowed upon him. It was just me thinking about, like, how would I react, you know?

And I wasn't majorly bullied, especially not being out in high school. But you know, there are always the people that tried to give you shit. And in high school, I was the sort of person that gave shit back. I've told stories about me choosing violence, for lack of a better term. You could take that literally or figuratively if you'd like.

And so, it made sense for Javier to do that. And then to see it and be like, oh, that's not, that's kind of different than what we would expect. You know, reacting to microaggressions with the deserved aggression, that they, you know, call out is kind of a subversion of that stereotype that you don't really think of.

Because you know, the whole rise above, be better, like, you know, no. No, like, I'm not gonna let you treat me like shit, because that's the polite thing to do. That because that's the right thing to do, according to who? Do you know what I mean?

So yeah, that was an unintentional subversion of stereotype that I was glad to see people pick up on because I didn't notice that that was a sort of special thing.

The Making of Departing Seniors (53:56)

Rob Loveless

So, with that, in mind, walk us through the process of creating departing seniors from writing the story to actually having it premiere.

Jose Nateras

So um, I mentioned I took this class, Screenwriting 101 or whatever, at Second City. I want to say was maybe six weeks, eight weeks, $360, something like that. And they spend that period of time teaching you how to write the first half of the screenplay. So, I did that.

And then they were like, okay, give us another $400, and we'll teach you how to write the second half. And I was like, nope, not doing that. So, after I finished the first half in that class on my own, I wrote the second half, and it was a complete first draft of the feature. And that was in 2015.

It went into my portfolio to get into CCIC's MFA & Writing program. So, I got in. And while I was there, Dashawna Wright, was in a producing program at Columbia College in Chicago. And part of their capstone to finish the degree is to option material and try to develop it and package it and blah, blah, blah. And they have like a semester in LA and they would try to sell it and stuff. We got put together because she was looking for a script. She liked mine. And so, she optioned it, was like, okay, great.

The way an option works is you sign an agreement. So, you'll get like maybe $1, especially at, like, lower-level indie projects or whatever. It's more symbolic. But it's basically like, for these 12 months, I have this and I'm going to try and sell it to somebody who will make it, is the way an option basically works. So, she optioned it, she took it to LA for her semester and then came back, and she graduated, but nothing really came in the movie, um, at that point.

So, the option expired, rights reverted back to me. I finished school. I graduated in 2018. You know, all the time, I'm acting and writing and all the rest. But I graduated. I was an adjunct English professor at Truman College in Chicago for, like, a semester. And I was continuing to work. And right as I was finishing, like, that first year after my MFA was 2018 into 2019, I made the decision that I was going to move to Los Angeles.

As an actor, I'm a member of SAG AFTRA, which is the union for screen actors, the Screen Actors Guild, and the SAG AFTRA Chicago has a, or at the time, they were doing this reading series for union members to do a table read of any scripts that they might have with union actors. So, I applied and they selected the script. And so, they did a table read with a bunch of union actors in Chicago, which was very exciting to hear the script, you know, out loud, and all of that. And that happened, like literally the week that I moved to Los Angeles.

So, when that happened Dashawna, heard about it, and she was like, hey, I heard about this reading. Congratulations. That's awesome. You know, I graduated a year ago, I've been working and starting to produce stuff and have experience now that I'm done with school. And everybody has told me this is a project that I should continue to try to get made. So, I would love to option it again.

And at that point, I was like, great. Yeah, you can option it again. But this time, I'm going to be a producer on the project as well. I don't want to be just the writer. Generally speaking, when a writer gets something made, they write it, and then they're out of the picture. They're not involved. Like, it gets optioned, it gets, it moves up the ladder, and through production without the writer having any say or responsibility or whatever.

But I was like, no, you know. I've been in this field for so many years. I know that I have something to offer. I know that the difference between getting this movie made and made to the furthest extent that it can be, kind of hinges on me taking that ownership of it. So, she was like, yeah, let's work on it together. We started working on it together. Yeah.

At that point, I was in LA, Clare Cooney was in LA and she had made some successful, short films. And so, I was like, hey, I'm producing now. Can we talk about what that means? And so, we got lunch. And I was like, we just talked about what it means to be a producer and I mentioned the script. And in my head, I was like, I think she would be a really good director for this. But I didn't want to assume that she'd be interested. And I think at that point, I don't know if she was. But we had lunch and it was literally the week before COVID shut everything down in March 2020.

But I think I sent her the script to read or whatever. Initially, we had another director attached. And we were going to just like, gather a couple of pennies and film it really rough and ready just to get it made. And I had talked with a friend who ended up becoming the associate producer, Steve Dearing, about Crowdfund, like raising money and stuff.

And so that was kind of the plan at first. And then time passed, maybe another year or a year about, you know, we were dealing with COVID. And had another conversation with Clare, and she was like, you know what? I am looking for my first feature. I've had success with these shorts. And I am interested in potentially doing this script. And I was like, yeah, I kind of hoped that that would be the case. And so, we had the conversation, and we brought her on officially as the director.

Her work as a successful short film director and stuff in Chicago had set her up with a lot of really great connections with the Chicago independent film scene. So, in addition to being the director, she also came on as a producer because it was by her network that we were able to get the movie made to the caliber based off of a budget that is very small. And so, you know, we had Clare attached and we continue to move through development.

I had I spent a lot of time doing research on querying and how to reach out to potential investors. Another producer who joined the team had suggested reaching out to this one company, which was a Chicago-based independent film, like horror film distributor named Dark Sky. And they had started to produce a couple of projects.

And so, I reached out to them, and it was like, hey. And they're like, okay, cool, send us the deck. I was like, okay, cool, here's the deck. They're like, okay, cool, send us the scripts. I was like, okay, cool, here's the script. And they were like, well if you can make this for this amount of money, and at this point, we had moved past. You know, part of Claire coming on was like, I don't want to make a crowdfunded cheapy movie. I want my feature film to be a movie. And I was like, bet, yeah, that sounds great.

And so, but even that, you know, we were trying to be realistic about the amount of money we could, we could amass. And so, I reached out to these people, and they're like, if you can make this movie for what you're saying, we'll finance it. And so that ended up happening. When that happened, that had to be, like, maybe April or March of 2022.

We filmed on location in August of 2022. In Chicagoland. We filmed the entire feature in 16 days, which is nothing; that's crazy for a feature film. The script is like 109 pages. That's insane. But we did it. For very, very, very little money. However, much money you think we made it for, it was less. Which is crazy, because some of the response describes it as like, oh, yeah, this mid-budget horror. And I'm like, bitch, no. Like this is the epitome of low-budget, but it doesn't look like it, like it really does.

You know, a lot of our conversation is that this movie just swings above its weight class, right? The amount of heart and the quality that you see on screen. I'm very proud of this film. But yeah, so we filmed it all in 16 days for like, hardly any money at all. And then we finished post-production in about a year, which is also crazy fast for feature film.

And we had our world premiere, our world festival premiere at Fright Fest UK in London, almost to the day, a year after we completed principal photography in August of 2023. It was like, I think we finished filming maybe on August 30. And our premiere was like the 29th or something; it was like really close. And then from then on, we had the rest of our festival run, you know.

We had our US premiere at the Chicago International Film Festival, which was like a homecoming because that's where we made it and that's where we're from. And it was at the music box, which is my favorite place in Chicago. We completed the rest of our festival run over the course of 2023.

We had our limited theatrical run last month in February, and now it's on-demand, like video-on-demand. And like most places, you can video-on-demand stuff. So, Apple TV+, Amazon Prime, I think cable on demand, like all that stuff.

And yeah, now it's out in the world for people to see.

Rob Loveless

That's awesome. And I mean, just from hearing you talk about it, I can hear the passion and see the passion on your face. With you know, the heart and soul that went into the movie.

I think you can really see that too, from the actors portraying the characters. Like I mean, just the dynamics between them were flawless. It was amazing. Like I mean, Javier and his best friend, and even, you know, some of like the jerky football players and stuff, just, it felt so realistic.

And I think, and I'm sure because of the experiences you had writing it, like I related a lot to certain parts and like, oh, I remember like that in high school or feeling this or being afraid of this thing.

So, I think it definitely hits home, but it's just, it's beautifully executed.

Jose Nateras

Oh, thank you.

Jose’s Favorite Scene (1:03:55)

Rob Loveless

Oh, of course. So, I was wondering, do you have a favorite scene from the movie?

Jose Nateras

That is a really good question. I feel like my answer changes depending on the day. I've seen it so many times. And I think the best thing is that I haven't gotten sick of it yet. I'm not bored by it yet, which I take as a good sign.

But I think there's a scene where Javier and Bianca are sitting on the lawn talking and it's kind of like a little bit exposition. They're figuring out what's going on with the visions and stuff. And it was I think it was our first day filming. It was our first day seeing Ignacio, who plays Javier, and Ireon, who played Bianca, really bouncing off each other.

And it was my first time hearing the dialogue, like, out loud coming out of their mouths. and it is a little bit of a heightened stylized dialogue. You know it's a little Diablo Cody, a little Gilmore Girls. Just like dense, fast-paced, like, wits, references, zingers.

And the fact that they make it feel so grounded and realistic is really a testament to the actors, their talent, and Clare, you know, directing them. But seeing it and being like, oh, yeah, this is, especially because that relationship is the heart of the movie.

And seeing it and being like, yeah, this is this is going to work, always holds a very special place in my heart. And then seeing it, like, on-screen with some of the cuts and like different references. It just always makes me laugh.

And like the little choices that they do. And I think the Clueless references in there. There's a big little Stephen King title drop throughout that little sequence. And I think that's the one that like really kind of stands out when I think of my favorite scenes.

Authentically Portraying LGBTQ+ and Latino Representation (1:05:44)

Rob Loveless

Going back to the main character, Javier. He's both LGBTQ+ and Hispanic. So how did you make sure that the intersectionality of the character's identities were, were authentically brought to life in the movie?

Jose Nateras

Yeah, I mean, a big part of that is casting. And it's really hard. Like casting is one of the hardest elements to filmmaking in ways that you don't really understand until you do it. In ways that I, as a professional actor, don't think I understood until I was on the other side of the table. And all of the different, just, things you have to take into account.

And a big part of me being a producer on the film had to do with me making sure that we were being authentic to who this character is, what the story is. Because you know, me and Dashawna knew from jump that we didn't want a straight white man to direct this film. So, we knew that that was one thing that was important to us. We got Clare, which we were really proud of. But as, like, a white woman, that's still not all of the things that this story is.

So, it was really important to have the perspectives that are true to that involved, not superficially, but like on a decision-making level. So as a producer, I was very involved with a lot of these choices. And Clare was very great about listening to input that I had to say. I was, I was on set all day, I mean, all the days, you know.

My experience as an indie filmmaker had a lot to do with, I've been a PA and million times. So like, yeah, I'm the writer-producer on this, but I'm also the person offering you a water bottle or getting you a chair. Because I didn't want to ask anybody to do work that I wasn't willing to do. And that kind of made its way into the authenticity of the story by being present.

So, by being able to have conversations with Ignacio. Ignacio is the actor who plays Javier. He's fluent in Spanish. You know, his family's like from Spain. So, he is Hispanic. This character is Latino, which is different, but we made the decision to cast him because he brought the energy and he was just so right for the role.

And, you know, my parents saw it. My parents were actually in it in one scene, but that's a weird little easter egg. But, um, but like, my mom was like, yeah, he reminds, reminded me of you when you were younger. And that was part of it too, you know.

So being able to have that be true to the intersectional identity of this character has to do with finding what that means. And what that means is the sort of quintessence of a person, right? I am a gay Mexican American man, who is very much like this, Javier. So, finding someone who can be Javier and is Hispanic and is X, Y, and Z, and can handle the language was the way that we did that.

From a production standpoint, we had a lot of queer Latino people making decisions on the back end, too. So, Judy Febles was our production manager and our line producer. We had Lalo Ayala, was one of the key artists working on the film. He made the mask, you know.

A lot of it had to do with writing very specific stuff, so the Los Bunker's t-shirt, the tortilla with the peanut butter is a weird thing that I used to when, I still do, I eat. So, like even the heating up of the tortilla on the gas stove. Like there's like all of these sort of specific things that I wrote into the script specifically.

And Ignacio was really great about checking in with me about stuff too, about, like, the level of Spanish. Like Ignacio's Spanish is better than my Spanish, which means his Spanish is also better than Javier's Spanish. So, I was having conversations about like, to what level, it's not like he's speaking Spanish in it throughout but like, just like. You know, how would I say this if I'm, what is my familiarity with the language, you know? Just things like that.

So, there was a lot of different little things that kind of went into the big picture of making sure that the portrayal of this character exists in this world because that's kind of the crux of it. Right? The context, authentically.

The Importance of LGBTQ+ Representation in Front of and Behind Cameras (1:10:21)  

Rob Loveless

And with that being said, I had done an episode last year on the debate about if straight actors should play queer characters. And while there's different opinions on that, a larger conversation that should be had too is who's in, you know, the rooms? Who's writing the stories, you know?

Because at the end of the day, some of the representation, while it might be good-natured, may fall flat if it's coming from somebody who's directing it as a white straight cisgender man.

So, with, and I hope I didn't just answer my own question, but if I did, hopefully, you can expand upon it. Why do you think LGBTQ+ representation is so important, not just on the screen, but behind the cameras and in the writing rooms?

Jose Nateras

Yeah, I mean, I think you kind of hit the nail on the head, right? Like, it's not just about, it's all connected, right? Like, it's not just about what is on-screen and who is playing the role on-screen. Right?

I remember getting into arguments when Call Me By Your Name came out because I was, like, straight actors playing these gay characters, etc. Like, it really did rub me the wrong way as, like, a gay actor. As a gay actor who struggles to get the straight roles that I pass enough for. And I'm not considered for the gay roles that are there because they're stereotypical and I don't meet those stereotypical expectations. 

So, the one few times that we get, like, these interesting nuanced queer characters, and they're being played by straight men, like, that's really frustrating. And it's a sign that I think some people don't take queer people seriously, queer actors seriously. You know, they don't consider us as people. We're just these masks to be put on, you know?

But that being said, making this movie, Ignacio is straight, like. That is something and that is something that we had these conversations about. But me being the writer and, why it was important for me to also be the producer, and not just the writer, but to me, for me to be involved. I was like, I need to have the integrity that, when I'm faced with the, you know, versions of myself that were so angry about this thing, that I can stand behind those decisions.

And I can say, I'm one of the people that decided to have this actor play this role. I'm the gay Mexican guy choosing the straight Hispanic guy to play that role and these are the reasons why. And those reasons matter, right?

And for me, those reasons were to get this movie made, period. Right, like, a big part of getting movies greenlit is having names or stars or whatever attached. The horror genre gives you a little bit of space. 

But like if you are trying to name a celebrity or name like an actor with name recognition, who can believably play a high schooler, and is a queer Latino, who? Like, who? Like I can't think of anybody like that, right? And part of that is to create the opportunities so that those individuals can arise, like, so that those individuals can present themselves.

But the realistic element is, like, we're making this movie now, today, or in 2022. What were our options? And anybody who might be right, are they going to be interested? Because some of those folks have agents who are dicks, right? Like some of those folks don't want to do a low-budget, indie horror comedy, right?

And we got really lucky with Ignacio because he checked so many of the boxes. And I was able to know that my integrity can be intact by casting him. And that, by casting him allowed us to make this movie and make a movie where he offers a brilliant performance and make a movie that then we have queer Latinos employed, right? Like, a big part of this is putting your money where your mouth is.

I know that this project put money in people's pockets that are queer Latino people, like queer BIPOC people. Can you say that for other queer productions? Can you say that for, I mean, I don't know, I haven't, I know nothing about the production of Call Me By Your Name, right?

But like, I know that this product, this production, employed queer BIPOC and fem people. And that's because I made the decision like I'm not me, me, me, not I. Me and Dashawna and Clare, like me and my fem BIPOC collaborators on this project. We're consciously making that decision.

And those decisions, no shade, I don't trust straight white people to make. Because straight white people don't care about queer BIPOC fem populations.

So, like to answer your question, representation is important beyond just what's on screen. It needs to come from the decision makers because the decision makers are going to be the ones that have their priorities a little bit more in line with serving beyond making money, creating vehicles for their own careers. Yeah. At least that's my, that's my perspective, right?

Like, it's a balancing scale. And if you can justify casting certain people too, then you have to make up for it and other elements. Like it's all about, it's all about that, that tight rope balance and it's not easy. And like, I had to spend a lot of time thinking about this. And I was like, well, I know that this is the right decision for this role based off of the actors who are presenting themselves.

And we also got, like, straight actors who auditioned for this role, whose interpretation of queer teen was exactly what you'd expect from a straight actor pretending to be queer, right?

And I think the beauty of what Ignacio does is, in this movie, and with his audition, was he just allowed himself to be that character without pretending to be gay. Like, Ignacio is not pretending to be gay in this movie. He just is Javier.

Rob Loveless

To your point, I think it's amazing that you created those opportunities for people off-screen because, like you said, you know, for these big productions who, I don't know, this might be too strong of a word, but maybe potentially are queerbaiting by having a gay storyline with gay characters, who do they have behind the cameras?

You know, do they have those opportunities, making sure that they're having people from those communities weighing in to be like, yeah, this makes sense? Or oh, this might rub the wrong way?

So, I think it's great that you're doing that. And then, like you said, creating those opportunities for future stars, you know, future writers, future directors, future actors, to bring that forward for, you know, additional movies in the future.

Jose Nateras

Yeah, I mean, that's the hope, right? Like, that's, that's, I think, like, the big point.

I know, when I was making this movie, you know, you have to make your references, right? So, I'm like, we're like Scream, we're like Heathers, we're like, blah, blah, blah.

A world where somebody might be like, we're like Departing Seniors, you know? Sure, that's a, that's a bit pie in the sky for a little indie film, but it's real.

And you know, I think about the movies in my film courses are that we would look at and study and be like, yeah, this is an example of queer filmmaking or this is an example of, you know, Latina cinema or whatever, like this. Or even just, this is an irrelevant piece of the horror genre, because of X, Y, Z.

I, that's, that's a goal for me, you know, being able to be part of the conversation that fuels future filmmakers. Specifically queer Latina filmmakers, you know. That's the goal.

Rob Loveless

And I will say that I feel that indie movies and indie books are sometimes the stories that people want and need more that, just from the powers above and the world of, you know, distributing the stuff, don't seem as marketable or what they're exactly looking for, but they're the ones, the indie ones are the ones I feel people might resonate more because it's the stories they see themselves in.

Jose Nateras

I think so. I mean, like, I don't know. The lifecycle of a movie is so crazy to me.

Like, you look at something like Jennifer's Body, right, which has kind of become this big, cultural force. And you can call it like a cult classic, you can call it or whatever. But like, that movie came out in 2009, I think, so over a decade ago. And it's still one of my favorites. And it's still one that I'm talking about.

And I remember seeing it in pretty much an empty movie theater. And then you know, and then you look at the Rotten Tomatoes, and it's got like a 54. And I'm like, you're crazy because this is a good movie. And that's why reviews and things like that, I think are kind of bullshit.

But, um, the point is to make art that resonates with people, right? And art resonates with people when it's coming from an honest place. When it's coming from a place that that feels like, it's not just trying to get my money, you know.

And that's why indie projects sometimes have that sort of heart, they kind of exist a little bit outside of a system that is just about getting ticket sales and, you know, selling a product. It's more about, like, treating it as an actual expression of self for whatever reasons. And like, yeah, I think that's kind of why we return to things.

There's just like this glimmer of personality in there because any filmmaking is, you know, is a business, right? There is always this, this element of investors trying to get a return on their investment, because that's just how you finance a film.

So, there's always going to be a little bit like, oh, well, let's just make a, you know, Friday the 13th knockoff, but then you get something like Sleepaway Camp, which people are still talking about, right? Because there's a glimmer of weirdness and personality and specificity to the heart of the people that made that movie. And that's what connects to people. That's what people connect to.

And I think that's what's exciting about, you know. There's so much content out there, but you put it out. It's like putting a letter in a bottle and just knowing that people are going to find, the people that it's meant for, will find it. Trusting in that.

Rob Loveless

While we're on the topic of indie projects, you and I have been connected on Instagram for a few years now. And maybe this is why, but I didn't realize actually, we're both part of the NineStar Press family.

Jose Nateras

Oh, yeah. Gotta love NineStar Press.

Testament (1:20:45)

Rob Loveless

Right? Yeah. So, in 2019, your book Testament was published through NineStar Press. So, can you tell us more about that?

Jose Nateras

Yeah, yeah. So, um, I went into my writing program with a portfolio that was mostly, like, playwriting and screenwriting. But I chose the School of the Art Institute of Chicago's MFA writing program because it was so broad, right? Like, it's just in writing. It's not creative writing. It's not screenwriting. It's, like, it's writing.

So, I was able to go in there and study all the things that I wanted to study. And that included fiction, like prose writing. Love, Stephen King. Had written short stories and stuff, but that isn't really what I spent a lot of my time writing. But I went in there wanting to look, explore that facet of my artistic practice.

And my first year, my first semester, I took like a some fiction class; I wrote a short story. I also went through a horrible breakup. Like a horrible, like, very emotionally damaging breakup that sort of caused this, like, manic spree of work. I was like, I can't deal with emotions, I'm just going to pour myself into all the different types of working and projects and artistic expression that I can do.

And so, I wrote this short story, and it was a little bit bloated, you know, it's little bit big and somebody's like, there's too much in this short story. And I'm like, funny, you should say that because I didn't actually want to write a short story, I wanted to write a novel, but this is the assignment was short stories. So, I took that seriously, though, and I was like, okay, I'm in this program for two years. That's four semesters, that's however many weeks. I want to leave this program with a manuscript for a novel.

So, I took that, and I outlined and I wrote and wrote and wrote. And, as with Departing Seniors, a lot of just my experience is in the book. Like it's set in Chicago, it's set in a fictionalized, fictionalized version of a hotel restaurant, that I was working in a hotel restaurant. So, it was very much like, like that, you know. It's a haunted hotel, sort of novel, in line with something like The Shining or 1408, to a certain extent, by way of, like, Get Out, just because it's culturally specific.

It's queer, Mexican American. It's just very Chicago. And so, it was kind of me processing all of the stuff with the breakup and with that age, and with that job, and with what it means to be a gay Mexican living in a world where you can be gay, or you can be Mexican, but being both is twice as hard, you know what I mean? So, it's me sort of in the way that like, we're kind of haunted by these ghosts of, of the systems in which we live.

So, I wrote this novel, and I had read, like, Turn of the Screw by Henry James, you know, so it's a little bit Gothic in nature. It's got Stephen King's fingerprints all over it.

And I finished the manuscript around the time I was graduating. And I went through a query process over the course of the first couple of months after I'd graduated, and NineStar expressed interest. And so, I, like, signed the publishing agreement with them.

It's my first novel, my first manuscript, my first querying process, and it ended up working out. I feel very, very lucky because that's not the typical experience for novelists out there. And, you know, NineStar is this great, this great press that is, you know, dedicated to uplifting queer voices. So being able to be on their label has been awesome. And, you know, they put my book out.

I feel dumb, because, like, at the time I was, I was feeling this like pressure like it needs to happen, it needs to happen. And I was so impatient, and so we released it in like, December of 2019, like December 30. And if we had waited, it would have been better because then, you know, it would have had the full year, like 2020, to sort of, like, live in the world and have people read it and maybe make it onto some lists or for consideration.

But as it is, it was kind of like, just like right out there. And that's on me because I'm an impatient bitch, like, you know. But the book came out and I'm very proud of it. And it's funny because it feels like so long ago now. And it's something that I've done and it was this, this undertaking that I am super proud of, but um.

I just, no, nobody ever knows about it, right? Like people don't it's, some people have read it. I mean, I'm so glad that people have read it. But like, I don't get to talk about it as much as I kind of wish that I did. Like, or I wish I had more opportunities to talk about it. So, when you mentioned it, I was like, oh, shit, I get to talk about Testament. That's amazing.

It doesn't help that Margaret Atwood released a book called, like, The Testaments around the same time. And like the Bible Testament. Like because if you Google, like, Testament book or whatever, Margaret Atwood and then, like, the Bible. And then, and then my novel pops up eventually.

And again, that's me. I liked the title. So, I stuck with it. And I'm like, well, could have thought that out a little bit more.

Future Projects (1:26:09)

Rob Loveless

Well, hopefully after this episode airs, all the listeners will watch Departing Seniors and read Testament and we can get both the book and the movie up those charts.

Because I haven't, full disclosure, I haven't read Testament yet. It's in my cart, so I'm going to buy it, but it sounded like a great premise.

And I can vouch for Departing Seniors. It's an amazing movie. And it straddles the line beautifully between both the horror and the comedy, like, you get best of both worlds. So, everybody watch it and read it and just all the things.

And I know we're kind of getting towards the end here. But before we close out, just a couple last questions. One, can you tell us any future projects you're working on or anything that we may come to see on the big screen anytime soon?

Jose Nateras

Yeah. I mean, I don't know about soon, but, um, I have another screenplay or feature-length project. It's called Zero Feet Away. So, Zero Feet Away is another horror comedy slasher genre mash-up, so it's like a werewolf slasher.

Zero Feet Away centers on a gay Mexican American werewolf who finds himself being hunted by a serial killer who uses Grindr basically to pursue his victims. So, it's, it's also set in Chicago. It's also horror comedy. It definitely feels like the older brother of Departing Seniors in terms of, like, genre vibes.

I'm very much influenced by things like an American Werewolf in London and always Scream because I'm basic. But like those sorts of things, like you know, Wes Craven's Cursed, the director's cut, and these different like sort of werewolf movies, and then the slasher tech element are kind of like layers on top of it.

And that screenplay was featured on 2021's Blood List, which I don't know, like, industry professionals are probably more familiar with The Blacklist, but it's like a list of, like, the best unproduced films of a given year or whatever. The Blood List is that for horror.

And so, it was included on that list and, through that process, it was optioned by Village Roadshow, Brillstein Entertainment partners. So that's in development. And we don't know exactly when it will be getting made and all the rest of those things. But um, if we stick to our guns, it'll make it into the world at some point.

You know, filmmaking is a marathon, not a sprint. But um, yeah, Zero Feet Away is probably the furthest in line on that. What are we going to see on the screen sometime soon? But yeah.

Rob Loveless

That's awesome. That sounds like an amazing premise. So, I need that. So once that comes out, we'll have to have you on for a follow-up episode to talk about it, too.

Jose Nateras

Oh, yeah, please. I'd love to.

Advice for Aspiring LGBTQ+ Writers (1:28:54)

Rob Loveless

You know, we covered a lot here today. So, as we wrap up, what words of encouragement would you give to listeners who are trying to break into the writing or movie industry as an LGBTQ+ person?

Jose Nateras

Yeah. I would say, be true to who you are, but not in the, like, basic sort of cliched way. I think that means following your interests, right? Like don't write just what you think is expected of you because you are X, Y, or Z.

Write what you are excited about. Write what you want to see in the world. Write the sort of stories that got you excited to read or watch when you were a kid, or even as an adult, you know. Write the sort of things that you were, like, you'll see a trailer for and I'm like, I'm seeing that, you know. I can't wait, ooh, that looks good.

You know, like, don't write what's expected of you just because you are part of this or that community. But bring yourself, bring your community with you to the things that you like, and trust that the uniqueness and specificity and being true to it will make it stand out.

And work hard. You know, work hard, it's hard work. Take care of yourself, you know, always gotta. Don't let the work be the defining element of you.

Episode Closing (1:30:16)

Rob Loveless

Definitely, definitely. And tying it back to the tarot, King of Pentacles. Again, this card is representing someone who shows leadership qualities. Who has achieved stability in their life, but also has generosity for others and drive to create a more equitable future.

And I think we've really seen that today in what Jose has talked about, with bringing authentic representation to the movie, Departing Seniors, and in all the work he does, and having that drive to be the change we want to see. It can be tough because obviously, we're not always well represented as LGBTQ+ people, or adding a layer with different races and ethnicities.

So, while it can be frustrating to see that, we can create the change we want to see, especially for someone who's a creator, who's a writer, a screenwriter, a producer. we can create those characters; we can create those storylines that we have wanted to see for so long.

And our goals are within reach. So hopefully, from one day with the drive we put forward, we will make it big and we will be able to make those decisions and create opportunities for people like us and for other people who are underrepresented to bring authentic storylines and authentic representation to inspire the next generation of LGBTQ+ people.

Connect with Jose (1:31:21)

Rob Loveless

Well, thank you again for coming on today, Jose. This was an amazing episode, and, again, congratulations on Departing Seniors; such a great movie.

Please tell the listeners where they can learn more about you, about the book, where they can watch Departing Seniors, all the things.

Jose Nateras

Yeah, yeah. So you can follow me on Instagram at J-L-O-R-C-A-one-three, so @jlorca13. I'm on Threads, I guess by the same username. I'm technically still on Twitter/X, but I don't really use it for anything. But that's my name, Jose Nateras.

You can find the book on either NineStar Press' website or wherever you get your books. I always like physical books. So you can always, I always recommend people to like, get a physical copy. But I think there is an e-book version as well.

You could also request it from your library because then libraries might buy a copy. And my big thing is, you know, the idea of it being on a library shelf just makes me very happy. It's on one library shelf in Chicago, Testament is, and so, like, I always love that.

You can watch Departing Seniors pretty much anywhere you would do your video-on-demand stuff. So Apple TV, Amazon Prime, I think it's on Tubi. You know, I think it should be on some cable on demand if you're clicking through your, your TV stuff as well. And yeah, I think that's probably it.

I'm on TikTok. I think it's @jlorca1312. I don't use it very often, but I try. But if you are curious, there are some TikToks from the making of Departing Seniors. So, there's like behind-the-scenes little videos that I recorded on set. If you're curious, feel free to check it out.

Connect with A Jaded Gay (1:33:13)

Rob Loveless

And you know the drill, you can reach out to me with any questions or feedback about the episode, rob@ajadedgay.com. Also, be sure to rate, review, and subscribe to the podcast. Five stars really help with the algorithm and I greatly appreciate it.

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And remember every day is all we have, so you got to make your own happiness. Mmm-bye.