40. We Are Family: Part 2 (with Amy Loveless)

Even though we may have had similar upbringings compared to our straight peers, members of the LGBTQ+ community still tend to carry trauma from growing up differently.

In this encore episode, my sister, Amy Loveless, joins us to discuss how our upbringing impacted how we date, generational differences regarding LGBTQ+ visibility, and dating intentionally.

Transcript

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Snarky Opener (0:00)

Amy Loveless

I don't know how to answer that.

Rob Loveless

Are you happy or not? These are not difficult questions.

Episode Introduction (0:26)

Rob Loveless

Hello, my LGBTQuties, and welcome back to another episode of A Jaded Gay.

I'm Rob Loveless, and today I'm a non-jaded gay because I was talking to one of my friends who I haven't talked to in a while, but they listened to the podcast.

And they were asking how things are going. And I said, you know, truthfully, not great. And I was kind of laying out some of the stuff going on in my life.

And they're like, Wow. Well, I would never be able to tell that from listening to the podcast because you sound so upbeat.

So, fake it till you make it. Apparently, I'm putting on a good face, and I guess that makes me non-jaded today.

We Are Family (0:52)

Rob Loveless

Anyway, I'm excited because today, as a follow-up, I have my other sister, Amy, on the podcast.

You know, the last episode was an interview with my sister, Michelle, going through some of our sibling dynamics, how we, you know, grew up under the same roof, but have different experiences and outlooks when it comes to dating, things like that.

So as an encore episode, I'm having my other sister, Amy, on. We're going to go through a similar conversation.

You'll see it's going to be quite a bit different, just because, obviously, Michelle's a lot more open than maybe my sister and I are. So, we're going to go right into it.

But you know the drill before we do, let's play our tarot.

Tarot (1:23)

Rob Loveless

So, today's card is the Ace of Pentacles in reverse. I think Pentacles might be actually one of my favorite suits.

As you know, Pentacles is tied to the element of earth, so it's very grounding energy. It's feminine energy. So, it's much more meditation-focused. We're going to think through and process and reflect.

And the suit of Pentacles, typically, is indicative of, you know, putting in hard work, reaping the rewards from the fruits of your labor, all that fun stuff. It's also tied to prosperity, but not always necessarily in the literal sense.

It could be emotional prosperity. And as you know, aces in the Minor Arcana are the beginning of that suit. So, this is the beginning of our journey.

So, we can think of this as the start of a new cycle, the beginning of a new journey. It's number one in the suit of Pentacles.

So again, back to numerology, it's the start of a new adventure, a new journey, a new cycle. And when we draw this card in reverse, it's typically indicating that there's a delay in achieving the rewards we're working towards.

So, what it can mean is that maybe that there's an opportunity on the horizon that we're not able to see because we're not using our energy efficiently.

Maybe we're surrounding ourselves in situations that aren't good for us, or with people who may not be the most beneficial for us. And so, because of that, it's blocking our path forward to a better opportunity. 

Or it could even indicate that we're trying way too hard. We're trying to control every single thing to get from point A to point B. So, when we pull this card, it's really asking us to kind of loosen up our grip.

We can't be in total control. We definitely want to have some direction on our path forward, but we can't control every outcome.

We need to trust the process, trust our intuition, and trust the universe is leading us in the right direction.

And when we relinquish some of that control, it might allow us to actually see something right in front of us that we weren't seeing before because we weren't trying to look for other opportunities.

Also, when we try to be too much in control, it may cause us to double-guess ourself, and then we might hesitate when the time comes to take action.

So, we need to really again, trust that intuition, trust the process. We need to focus on our thoughts.

This card is asking us to meditate, reflect on where we're at, seeing where we can maybe make adjustments on our path forward.

And by doing that, we can actually build confidence in ourself.

Guest Introduction (3:09)

Rob Loveless

Speaking of earth energy, I'm looking right now. She has a tattoo of a moon with some flower blossoms coming out of it on her ankle.

She's an athletic trainer, the hostess with the mostest. I'd like to welcome to today's episode our guest, Amy.

Hi, Amy, how are you doing today?

Amy Loveless

I'm doing pretty well. How are you?

Rob Loveless

I'm doing good. Doing good.

So, to kick us off, can you just introduce yourself? Tell us a little bit about you, what you identify as, pronouns, all that fun stuff.

Amy Loveless

Yes. So, I'm Amy. I identify as she/her.

I am an athletic trainer working in Washington, DC right now. And that pretty much sums me up.

Rob Loveless

And I forgot to ask Michelle this last time until the end, so I remembered to bring it up now.

I always ask the guests this, are you an honorary jaded or non-jaded gay today, and why?

Amy Loveless

Non-jaded because, you know, I'm home with my family. I get to see everyone, visit them for a little bit and just chilling. It's a beautiful day out.

Rob Loveless

Wow. And that's an honor because being home with family can really go either way.

Growing Up Different (4:01)

Rob Loveless

So, I know you haven't listened to the episode with Michelle yet. Similar to what we did last time, we had kind of just talked about, you know, we all come from the same family.

We had similar experiences in terms of parenting, growing up, and stuff like that, but because of different situations, me being gay, you being straight, we all have different outlooks on certain things and how, you know, certain things from childhood might impact our views on aspects in adulthood.

So, this is going to be probably a different interview because Michelle is much more open than you and I both are.

So, I guess, just to kick it off, you know, can you talk about, you know, we didn't really talk about this too much with Michelle, but, you know, we are religious. We grew up Roman Catholic and everything.

So, growing up religious, I think that's the first, that might be the first time you ever really hear about, like, marriage and stuff in the thought of like, you know, one man, one woman.

You're meant to be with just one person, intimately, all that stuff. Virginal birth, very, very scientific.

But so based off of those perceptions, growing up in religion and seeing those things, and again, Mom and Dad have been married since they were 22 and 24. Great marriage, all that stuff.

How did seeing that impact your views on dating when the time came for you to start dating?

Amy Loveless

Yeah. I mean, I think most of my perceptions came from mom and dad, as opposed from the actual church.

I mean, I think it's one of those things where, as a kid, you see your two parents together, and you see that it seems to be going well.

And I think my mind was like, oh, that's like, just kind of the fairy tale that everyone, you know, is going after.

So, I think from that view of seeing them together and how they were with each other, that was always like, oh, you meet a person young, you get married, you stay in love, stay together, and this that and the other thing.

And then, of course, growing up in the church, you know, seeing weddings in the church and seeing like the sacrament of holy matrimony, then that kind of solidified what I had been seeing with my parents of you kind of meet one person, you stay with them, and it's kind of your lifelong partner at that point.

So that's primarily, I think, where I got my views from at a young age.

Rob Loveless

And when you say at a young age, when did you start dating?

And I guess, I mean, I know in, you know, middle school and high school, you might be like, oh, this is my boyfriend, but it might not be serious dating.

But when did you, because I know Michelle has dated since she was very young. But I think you and I both didn't really date until we got a little bit older.

So, can you talk about your own dating experiences? When you started, you know, what you would consider dating?

Maybe some early relationships, things like that?

Amy Loveless

Yeah, definitely. I, I mean, I had those, like, silly middle school relationships where we were dating for a month, and, oh, we held hands, how serious?

But I don't really consider those true relationships, because it was on a very superficial level when people were still very young and immature and didn't understand how relationships are supposed to work anyway.

I had my first actual relationship senior year of high school, going into freshman and sophomore year of college. So, I started dating a little bit later than Michelle did, for sure.

So, I think I feel like I'm kind of in the middle of people who dated late and people who dated early. I'm like, smack in the middle.

Rob Loveless

And from growing up, what you saw, you know, in church and at home, did that impact your dating style in the sense of you felt like this has to be my person, or, like, even in terms of, like, intimacy, or anything like that?

Amy Loveless

I feel like it kind of did, especially with mom and dad. My mind was just, oh, you meet someone. It's literally what Rachel Green said in Friends.

She's like, you just thought you would meet someone, fall in love, and that would be it. And so that's kind of how my mind always was, and especially my first actual relationship.

I remember there were multiple parts in it where, you know, it wasn't exactly going great.

We were long distance, this, that and the other thing, but my mind kept telling me, like, no, it has to be him. It has to be him.

And so, I kept trying to make things work. And we'd keep trying to be like, oh no, this, this can work out. When I was more so just kind of fooling myself.

So, I think that perception of like, oh, you meet someone, you fall in love, that's it definitely kind of came through on that one.

Perceptions of Marriage (7:42)

Rob Loveless

And then going into adulthood, I guess, post that relationship, you know, do you have different views on that, in terms like it has to work out, or trying to make things work? Or do you have?

Because for myself, personally, I don't, I think we, you, me, and Michelle all talked about this, but because Mom and Dad got married so early, I kind of just assumed that's the way it was.

So, when I, you know, and I'm 29 and not married. And it's like, now it doesn't seem as weird, but when I was younger, I remember thinking like, if I'm not married by 29 like I'm gonna be an old spinster.

And then, you know, going through, you know, coming out later in life, and then dating later in life, really impacted my views in terms of like I have, I think I have a lot of hesitation with people, and a lot of doubts.

And maybe trust issues a little bit, but more so just doubting intentions.

Because it's like, when you're on dating apps and stuff, it's like you've been through the wringer, you've seen it all, and it's like, I'm not going to settle.

And I don't mean that in, you know, an arrogant way, but it's, it's big things that I think I've been asked to settle for before.

And when I was younger, I think I would think that I'd had to make things work out because I wanted to be married, this and that.

But I'm kind of realizing now, I've kind of broken past that mold of, you know, just because I want that doesn't mean I should sacrifice major parts of what I want, or feel not good, or feel anxious, or anything like that.

So, as you've kind of, you know, because you're 25 now.

As you've kind of gone through that dating relationship, like you said, where you had to make things work, and then it didn't, did that impact how you view dating now as kind of a little bit more of an adult now?

Amy Loveless

Yeah, I definitely think it affects how I view things. Again, kind of like you said, like, I don't want to just settle for things. I don't want to just make things work.

It should be, you know, both sides making things work. And I try to remind myself that. Like, the things that I ignore early on are going to be the things that bother me a lot later on.

So, I try to be more aware of, kind of the red flags that I see.

Or even the yellow flags, because sometimes people don't talk about yellow flags, but there are some things that are going to be 50/50 and you got to kind of figure out which side of it you're on.

But I feel like I'm still kind of in that younger you side that you mentioned about how you were thinking, oh, like, if I'm not married by this age, I'm going to be an old spinster.

Because, yes, I'm 25 but because of growing up with mom and dad, like having met so young, gotten engaged so young, gotten married so young, I think my mind still is like, holy cow, like I thought I would be engaged or married at this age, and I've been single for four years now.

So, I'm like, wow, this is not exactly what I had pictured.

And that's not really necessarily a bad thing. I've been able to focus a lot on myself and my career and my goals, but I do feel like as a result of my last relationship, I kind of have almost a little more of, not even guarded, but more just selective on what I'm gonna want and what I'm gonna be willing to deal with.

Like I kind of want to be more selective in what I allow in my life and what I don't allow in my life, and set, like the right boundaries for myself if that makes sense.

Rob Loveless

Yeah, definitely. And then going off of that too. I don't know if you would describe this as an insecurity of yourself, but it is an insecurity for myself.

You know, the part of like, you know, not being where I thought it would be at yet in terms of, like, marriage and kids and wanting all that.

And especially, like in the gay world, I feel that's a whole lot less common. And if people are doing that, it's not till much later in life.

And so, I was wondering, based off of, you know, you're also somebody who wants to be married and have kids. Do you feel, like, does that ever make you feel hopeless?

Like, in the sense of, like, this isn't going to happen for me, or is it more so, just like, I'm not where I want to be right now, it makes me sad, but it will happen for me someday?

Amy Loveless

I think I'm kind of on both sides of that. I definitely have times where I feel very hopeless and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is never gonna happen for me.

This is so frustrating. Like, I guess this is just how it's gonna be.

But then I have times where I'm like, you know, realistically, like, I meet people. Sometimes it works out. 

Sometimes it doesn't. Like it will happen for me.

Rob Loveless

And I was just curious, because, you know, for... for me.

Well, like, looking at, you know, media portrayal, people, you know in real life, things like that, I think with straight couples, you see it at any point in life.

So, you could see people who are 22 and 24 getting married having kids. You'd see people later in life, in their 40s, getting married, having kids.

Whereas for gay people, I feel up, until recently, you it never seemed as much of a possibility, until more recently, you know? You don't see it as readily, like I don't know many gay couples necessarily.

Growing up, I definitely didn't see that. I don't know many with kids. You can see it on TV a little bit, but sometimes I feel it's more reserved for the celebrities on there.

So, I wasn't sure if growing up seeing the representation of, you know, heteronormative society, if that was more of a reassurance for you that okay, it's not happening for me now, but it can happen for me someday?

I don't know if that had an impact for you.

Amy Loveless 

Yeah, I definitely think it might have, but I'll be honest, I don't know if this is just the difference in our age group, but I even in high school, I remember a handful of kids who were openly gay.

And like, for me, I was just like, oh, okay, cool. And even in college and in grad school, I knew a lot of gay couples who were together.

Actually, some people I knew from grad school, they actually just got engaged. It's two, two women who are together.

And so, for me, I feel like, again, maybe it was just the age group and the difference in over like, kind of becoming more accepting and everything, but I definitely feel like I saw not equal representation, but more representation of, kind of like, the LGBTQ+ community and relationships with that.

Recognizing What Gay Was (12:35)

Rob Loveless

And that's a really good segue because it's actually one of the points I wanted to cover. And Michelle and I did talk about this a little bit.

You know, we're four and a half years apart, but five, about like, five grades apart.

And for everybody who doesn't know if they're my sisters are twins, so that's why they're both four and a half years younger than me.

Um, but so that's a good point, because, like, when I was talking to her about that, I was saying the kids that were out in high school, for the most part, it was kids who didn't have the option to not be out.

So, whether they wanted to or not, they were kind of forced out. That being said, but then, you know, I remember, like your high school graduation, like there were more out kids and things like that.

And it wasn't, at least from the outside, it seemed like sexuality wasn't as big of an impact on how people were received by their classmates.

So, I guess just, you know, talking about that, I don't know if generational difference is the right word, but being four and a half years older, and then you being four and a half years younger, you know, what did you see in terms of, you know, how?

Well, I guess, to start off, when did you first recognize what gay was? Like under, not just hearing the word, but understanding what it meant?

Amy Loveless

Um, that's a pretty good question, because I don't think I ever necessarily noticed exactly what age it was.

But I remember in my freshman year of high school, there was a kid that I was relatively decent friends with. We were on the same sports team, and, you know, he had talked to me and several other people saying that, you know, he he was gay.

And it was kind of one of those things where, obviously I knew that, like him saying he was gay meant he liked men and not women. And like, okay, cool.

And I remember we were all kind of just like, okay, like, whatever. Unfortunately, obviously, there are some people who are not so okay with that.

So, you know, he would get into it with some kids sometimes.

But I mean, that was freshman year of high school for me, and I remember there was a group of us where we were just like, Yeah, okay, cool. And that was just kind of that.

Rob Loveless

Yeah, and then going off of that, you know, how I guess.

And I guess maybe high school is more of the question because I feel bullying might be a little bit bullying might be a little bit worse in high school.

But how did you see, you know, kids who are LGBTQ+ being treated in high school?

Amy Loveless

Yeah, I think that was also kind of mixed, because for myself and for a lot of the people, honestly, all of the people, I hung out with it, we were fine with it.

But then, of course, unfortunately, there are people who were more uncomfortable with the idea of it. And I never directly saw anyone bullying someone over it.

But, you know, I heard rumors of people saying mean words about them and like talking about them behind their back and everything and making jokes.

So, I didn't directly experience anything, but of course, I'm sure that was still existing.

Rob Loveless

Yeah, and that's kind of similar to what Michelle said.

I mean, now Michelle obviously was much more popular than you and I were in high school, but she was saying she never really noticed any bullying for that reason there.

And she said, you know, I might be ignorant too, because obviously, just because I didn't see it doesn't mean that it wasn't going on, but I wasn't aware of that.

But it sounds like for the most part, you know, and I said this in the episode with Michelle, too, obviously, for anybody who was bullied in high school, especially over things like that, like those things they'll remember.

Like, it sticks with them, so just because other people didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

But it does sound like for the most part, and again, you know only five grades difference, that there was more acceptance around that, or at the very least, you know, sexuality wasn't necessarily a factor as to whether or not somebody was socially acceptable to talk to, or something like that.

Amy Loveless

Yeah. I mean, I even remember there was one kid in our class who everyone seemed to really get along with. He was on homecoming court, and he was very openly gay.

And people seemed to really accept him for the most part, and everyone seemed to be friends with him for the most part.

Like you mentioned, Michelle said, Maybe I was ignorant to things that were happening because I wasn't directly experiencing it or witnessing it.

But I do feel like based off what I've heard from, like, your history, in our class growing up, it was a little bit more open and accepted, in a sense.

Rob Loveless

Yeah. And then going up to college, you know, you went to school for athletic training, so you were involved with a lot of college sports. You're involved with sports now as part of your job.

And I know historically, there were some instances of homophobia in different sports, you know, both at professional level.

I know every year I see headlines that for FIFA and stuff, there's, you know, the F word being thrown around, left and right as an insult at people.

It seems like there's a lot of homophobia in the sense of one, just using words, but then also, you know, maybe bullying about that.

However, in recent years, we have had more, you know, out-professional athletes.

So, I guess in your experience, both from maybe participating in sports yourself, you know, for any sports you've played, and then now as an athletic trainer in the, you know, college sports world, you know, have you seen any, have you experienced any homophobia like that?

Or have you seen a shift in how things have changed?

Amy Loveless

I mean, when I was in high school and I played soccer, there were a couple girls on the softball team, and some people would make jokes about them, like, oh, you play softball.

You're a lesbian, this, that, and the other thing. And like, I would kind of just sit there. I should have kind of been like, no, don't say that. That's rude.

But you know, when you're in high school and you're young, you don't always necessarily feel like you have the confidence to stand up and be like, yo, that's not okay.

But then moving into college, I feel like I didn't directly, really hear any homophobic slurs or anything working with any of the sports that I can remember.

And I do feel like as I've gone through college now moving into grad school and then moving into my job. I feel like over those seven years, I feel like there are more openly out athletes that I've worked with. 

When I first started doing my clinicals, I, of course, I wasn't as close with the athletes as the full-time staff was.

I didn't see the whole picture of them at that point, but I didn't really know of any who were openly out, but working in grad school and then working at my job now, like, I have several athletes who have, like, have openly been like, yeah, like, I'm gay.

I like women, I like men, whatever. And so, I feel like it's a lot more vocal about that kind of stuff now than what I had experienced in my early years of college and even high school.

Rob Loveless

Yeah. And are there any specific examples, you know, I know you talked about the softball thing in high school.

But are there any other specific examples where you might have seen something that probably didn't feel right in terms of, like, homophobia around, you know, athletes or anything like that?

Amy Loveless

I'm trying to think of any specific examples. You know, especially in my early years of college, you know, I think that was a time when gay was still kind of being used as an insult to people.

They would be like, Oh, that's gay. You're gay. Like, that kind of thing. And I remember being like, Wait, that's like, not what that means. But that seemed to phase out pretty quickly.

And I mean, for me, especially, moving through college, I kind of got a little more confident in like, saying when I thought something wasn't right.

Because it even goes to, like, similar things as someone using the R-word to insult someone.

Like, especially when I was in grad school and I had my own clinic, and I was my own athletic trainer, kind of figuring out how I want to run my show, like I would be very strict on what people could and could not say.

Like, it's one thing to curse around me. I've heard those words before, but there are certain words that I don't let people use.

And they kind of quickly were like, okay, yeah, I can't say that around you. Like, that's not okay to say. So, I try to do that at least to, you know, hone in a little bit.

But I really, in the past few years, I really haven't had any direct, I don't think I've had any experiences of homophobic slurs from my athletes, at least around me.

Meeting the Parents (19:51)

Rob Loveless

Okay, so shifting gears a bit from, you know, your experiences working as an athletic trainer, to just going back to kind of the dating thing.

So obviously, you had that one serious relationship, dated a little bit on and off now. Again, Michelle is very open, so there's not much she'd hold back.

But for you and I, I feel like sometimes we might be a little bit more shy about certain things.

So, when it comes to dating, you know, do you ever have any and I guess even going back to your relationship, did you ever have any apprehension bringing anyone around mom and dad?

Or, like, if you were dating somebody now, would you want to, would you feel comfortable bringing them around, Mom or Dad?

Or would you really want to, like, take it slow?

Amy Loveless

I don't know that I'm necessarily looking to take it slower in terms of bringing anyone home to Mom and Dad.

I really haven't done much dating in the past few years, so, like, I don't even know if I would bring them home quickly.

But I think it's more that I just don't really feel like I want to or have the time to, like, play around and play games.

So, I think it would be more me figuring out if this is someone who I could seriously, you know, look at, and have more of a serious commitment with before I would actually bring them home because otherwise, it's just a waste of my time.

Rob Loveless

Yeah, and I was wondering if that apprehension was there, because, you know, funny enough, I was actually getting together a few weeks ago with some friends that I hadn't seen a while, who, you know, now they have kids and everything.

But they were saying, again, they're straight everything. But they were saying that, you know, when they were having kids, they were a little, they still felt a little weird telling their parents only, because they're like, Oh my God.

Like, my parents, I'm, you know, a grown person. I'm married, but like, my parents are gonna know that I had sex because I'm having a kid. So, I don't know, you know.

And for me, I was telling Michelle, being gay, that's my first thought of if I were ever to bring somebody home, is like they would see it as more like, this is the person that he is, you know, sexually active with, or something like that.

So, I wasn't sure if that was a concern in your mind, too. Again, not a concern for Michelle.

But I wasn't sure if that was a concern for you at all, or if that was a thought that ever even crossed your mind, like back when you did have your relationship, if that was an area of uncomfortability, like saying, like, oh, mom and dad might know that I'm intimate with this person?

Amy Loveless

Um, not really, because when me and my ex broke up, and I was so sad over it, I was crying on the phone to my mom and I just go I had sex with him.

So, I think they know.

Rob Loveless

Oh, my God. I could not even imagine that. I would just have to, like, change my name and move across the country.

Amy Loveless

I was so thankful that Mom just brushed right over and didn't even really respond.

She was like, you thought he cared about you. That's why. I'm like, thank you for not touching on that very much.

Rob Loveless

Well, and I do think that kind of leads to the next point is, you know, we're all a little bit older than mom was when she got married.

And back in those days, you know, I feel like you got married young, you might have only been with one person, whereas for a lot of people our age, that's not the case.

I did the episode on sex education, and I know the average age of first marriage is around age 30, but I believe the average age of first sexual encounter is like 15. I could be wrong.

I don't remember that off top my head. I know 30 was the first marriage, though.

So obviously there's a lot of time in between there, where you're figuring out yourself, where you might be more sexually active compared to, you know, our parents, the generation before us.

And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing by any means, but I do think that it could cause some friction in terms of, like, not being understood by the generation above you.

Amy Loveless

Yeah, I can definitely see that. Especially, you know, sometimes if I'm on the phone with mom, we'll be talking about relationships, and I feel bad, but I feel like I get frustrated when she's trying to give me advice or tips or whatever, just because my mind is like, you don't know what this is like.

Like you were engaged to the person that you're still married to at 20 years old. Like you don't know what it's like to be an adult single trying to date in this world.

And you know, that's probably my own bias, of just being like, oh, woe is me. Like no one understands me. But no, I definitely agree.

I think, especially for some people, it can be a disconnect between the older generations and the younger ones, where people are staying in school longer, people are getting married later, people are having kids later, versus, you know, when mom and dad were together, a lot more people got married younger, and kind of did all of that stuff sooner.

Episode Closing (23:47)

Rob Loveless

Yeah, and I think that's a good kind of connection back to the tarot. You know, we talked about, we've got the Ace of Pentacles in reverse, which is talking about, you know, a delay in abundance.

I think part of that, you know, it said that, you know, we might be too much in control of something, trying to make something work a certain way. I think you and I both are very much that.

You know, people say we're very similar in terms of, you know, we like structure, we like a plan, we like a guide, you know.

And for me, I know, I always thought, like, all right, my mom got married at 22, I need to be that age. When they had kids, they were 26; I should be that age.

And now I'm, you know, way beyond when she got married, when she had kids, all that. And I'm getting to a point where I'm like, okay, but this is okay.

Like, I'm, you know, I can sustain myself. Like, you know, yeah, those things are great, but I need to remind myself that just because it's not now doesn't mean never.

And so, I think that really, kind of going back to the card today, it really is a reminder for us of that. Because I think you and I are both in similar situations with that.

Amy Loveless

Yeah, definitely. I think you and I are actually the twins here. But, yeah, yeah, no, definitely. I I have to try to remind myself that, like, it's fine, but I'm kind of the same way.

I definitely had a plan of like, oh, by 24 I'm gonna be engaged. By 26 I'm gonna be married. Like, I'll be having my first kids before, like, 30.

And I'm like, oh, that's not, that's not how this is going.

But, you know, I have to try to remind myself, like, at the same time, you know, I've been focused on school, I've been focused on getting a job, I've been focused on doing my research, so I've been doing productive and awesome things.

It's just not the way that I pictured it. And that doesn't mean that it's a wrong picture.

Rob Loveless

Yeah. And, you know, with Pentacles, they're very much about prosperity. And like I said, it goes beyond just the literal sense of prosperity.

You know, I think, while maybe that part of our lives is not there yet, we have done a lot of work to kind of solidify other parts of our lives with our education.

You know, you just, you just finished your masters in the summer, and you got your job in the fall and everything like that.

So, we've been doing these things to kind of buildup ourselves in other areas.

And I think, you know, the way I at least try to frame it for myself is, you know, I'm building up these other parts myself so I can bring my best self forward for when the time comes for, you know, forever, so to speak.

Amy Loveless

Yeah. And actually, that makes me think of this one thing that I had seen on TikTok a while back.

And I still try to repeat this to myself regularly, because, like you mentioned, we're very plan-oriented people, and I think sometimes we are trying to fill in the whole picture before we even could develop it, but, um.

But I saw this thing on TikTok a while back, and it said. It was a, it was a story about this boy and this horse who are lost in the woods.

And the boy is saying, I can't see a way out. I can't see a way out. And the horse says, can you see your next step? And the boy says, yes. And he goes, then just take that.

And I think sometimes we have to remind ourselves, like, don't be rushing to finish the race. Like, just enjoy the mile you're on.

Rob Loveless

Yeah, I really like that. I think that's a good place to close off on. Thanks again, Amy, for joining us today.

Connect with A Jaded Gay (26:26)

Rob Loveless

As a reminder for everybody out there, feel free to contact me with any feedback or questions rob@ajadedgay.com.

You can follow the podcast on Instagram and TikTok @ajadedgaypod. You can follow me, Rob Loveless, on Instagram @rob_loveless.

And remember, every day is all we have, so you got to make your own happiness.

Do you want to do the mmm-bye with me?

Mmm-bye.

Outtake (27:14)

Amy Loveless

So, I kind of go back and forth on that. Um... I was gonna say something, but I totally just lost my train of thought.

It's fine. Yeah. It will come back eventually.